BBC“There’s only so many times you can turn a deaf ear to being called murdering scum,” smiles former fox hunt master, Byron John.
He says it in a jokey way, as people tend to do when trying to deflect from a serious and emotionally difficult topic.
It has been almost 20 years since hunting foxes with dogs was banned, but Mr John says he still finds himself in a “fight for survival” to keep elements of the sport he loves alive.
For others, such as Dafydd Hughes, the fight is quite different – he has spent 14 years following hunts around north Wales, trying to sabotage them, and doing his utmost to end hunting in all its forms.
The pursuit today is quite different to how it played out in the past.
For the last decade, Mr John has championed a form of hunting that sees a human runner – rather than a fox – chased, he told BBC Wales Live.
Other hunts have adopted trail hunting which sees a rag soaked in animal scent, such as fox urine, dragged along a trail for the hounds to follow.
It is intended to replicate hunting without killing animals, but critics claim it can be used as a “smokescreen” for the real thing.
Last year the Scottish government banned trail hunting and limited the number of dogs being used in hunts to no more than two without a license.
But now Mr John worries that if the UK government bans trail hunting, he may also be forced to close down his Three Counties Bloodhound group.
The UK government said it had “ambitious plans to improve animal welfare”.
Back in the mid 2000s, just after the ban, Mr John was leader of the Carmarthenshire Hunt in rural west Wales.
It was a role he had dreamed of having since childhood, but one he said he had gradually began to realise he could not keep.
“In the run-up to the ban it very much felt that it was a class war,” he said.
“You felt you were doing a pest control job for the farmer. But there are other ways in place now of doing that.
“The world is changed.”
The decades since the ban have been marked with ugly, sometimes violent, clashes between hunts and saboteur groups – who accuse them of breaking the law.
These groups often attempt to use the hunts’ own tools against them – buying imitation horns and whips to try to distract the hounds.
Some saboteurs believe legislation has failed, and have taken it upon themselves to try and stop the hunts.
“I’m at the point where it needs to be a complete ban on all types of hunting, simulated or not,” said Dafydd Hughes.
He has spent the past 14 years pursuing hunts across the countryside of north Wales.
Initially, he handed out leaflets on high streets as part of an animal rights group.
But one experience led to him taking more direct action, as he added: “We were approached by one of the hunters from our local hunt who started shouting abuse and saying what a great day they’d had killing foxes the week before.
“So, the week after, just the three of us turned up at that hunt.”
Unlike many saboteurs, the 46-year-old does not wear a mask – and was happy to be interviewed on camera.
“I presume the hunts absolutely hate us,” he said.
“We ruin their day. You’ve got to try to keep a cool head though.
“It’s not easy to join a sab group – and it shouldn’t be.
“You have to interview people who want to join, you don’t want troublemakers.”
Mr Hughes – who was once found guilty of assault for pushing a hunt supporter – admits violent incidents can happen.
But he said the groups do what they can to check new members for “red flags”.
“We’ll check out their social media and things. We need people who are interested in stopping fox hunting, not people who want to come out and fight,” he said.
Mr Hughes said he believed a lot of hunts had “already folded” with “membership down” in recent years.
It was back in 2012 that Mr John made the decision to resign from his hunt – after losing confidence the ban would ever be overturned.
Then spontaneously one Christmas, while his partner was away visiting family, he went out and bought a pack of bloodhounds.
He now has 41 of the dogs, which he has trained to follow human scent.
“I was having a taste for what else could be done, another way forwards,” he said.
After researching his options, Mr John formed the Three Counties Bloodhounds – which take part in “clean boot hunting”.
As he explains, it means they still dress up in “all the strange gear” and use dogs and horses in a very similar way to fox hunting – but instead, the hounds are taught to only follow human scent.
“We keep finding these absolutely eccentric people, who want to run ahead of a pack of hounds,” he said.
The hunting veteran said he felt their way was the best way of “keeping tradition alive”, but admitted the “older generation” see him as “a Judas” who has “sold out”.
“We get it from both sides,” he said.
“I think in every form of life or any activity or any passion, there’s going to be extremes.”
Mr John said his group train their runners, who are employed by the hunt to flee from the dogs, to avoid badger and fox dens, as well as any other wildlife that could be disturbed by them.
But he fears a lack of understanding could lead to their hunt being banned if the UK government change the law again.
“There have been so many instances of law breaking [by hunts],” said Mr John.
“It’s been brought to the forefront by social media.
“We feel that everyone gets tarred by the same brush and it’s not good. We feel the hostility and I think it’s unfair.”
A spokesperson for the Countryside Alliance said the group felt the current Hunting Act was working and any prosecutions for illegal hunting demonstrated that.
Rachel Evans from the Countryside Alliance in Wales said saboteurs had “no place” in the countryside.
She added: “The tactics that the hunt saboteurs are using, trying to disrupt the day, such as using sprays and loud noises and hunting horns even – that can distract the hounds from their work.
“Then the huntsman has to concentrate to pull them back in line and keep them out of danger.
“The saboteurs obviously have no regard for the welfare of horses and hounds.”
A spokesperson for the UK government said: “This government was elected on a mandate to introduce the most ambitious plans to improve animal welfare in a generation – that is exactly what we will do.
“We will ban trail hunting that allows for the illegal hunting of foxes, deer, and hares.”
